In bars, pool halls and college dorms, we debate the large issues of sports -- who was overrated, who could have beaten whom, who has been overlooked for the Hall of Fame, and on and on. However, a lot of what is argued is baseless due to fans' ignorance of sports history. Let's take a look at some of the worst cases.

A 50 point scoring average. A 100 point game. 55 rebounds in a contest.

These astronomical numbers are often met with derision by fans who insist, "All the other centers back then were 6'6". Even when "The Big Dipper" was active, there were sportswriters and spectators who opined, "He's taller, he should be better."

Well, nothing can be further than the truth. When Wilt Chamberlain was in his prime, half of the big men he faced regularly were later named among the top 50 NBA players of all time.

Bear in mind that when Chamberlain was 25-28 years old, there were only 11 NBA teams, and no ABA. Those with little knowledge of the pre-1970 NBA will disregard the big men he opposed. Yet, Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed and Zelmo Beatty were stars in their own right.

Should a forward come over to help, Chamberlain would encounter Hall of Famers Bob Pettit, Jerry Lucas and Dolph Schayes. Later on, young players such as Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Lew Alcindor and Dave Cowens filled out the schedule.

When were all these nights off for Chamberlain? Who were the cream puffs?

Certainly not 260-pound bulwark Wayne Embry, an immovable pivot wider than Unseld. Not iron man Johnny Kerr, a tremendous passer at 6'9", 230.

If Russell was the greatest defensive player ever (and he was), in regular season games, Chamberlain averaged 25.7 points and 28 rebounds to Russell's 14.9 points and 24.7 rebounds. And rebounding is where Russell supposedly owned the advantage.

"Yeah, but Wilt lost all the big ones to Russell," some might say.

Excuse me? Russell defeated Chamberlain's team in those playoff games single-handedly? If memory serves, Hall of Famers Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, Tommy Heinsohn, Sam and K.C. Jones and John Havlicek contributed. The two seasons Wilt was surrounded by equal talent (1967 and 1972), his clubs posted the best records in the history of the game up to that time.

Height does not automatically translate to basketball dominance. Look at the careers of Chuck Nevitt, Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley. Also, Rik Smits was taller than his foes, yet never won a scoring or rebounding crown.

In truth, most giants are gangling and relatively slow afoot. Chamberlain's speed and agility are more exception than rule. In any case, the Philly Goliath did not amass his glowing stats against a slew of midgets.

Not sure where this one got started. In Muhammad Ali's career before his title was stripped, he stopped 22 of his first 28 opponents, many by standard, not technical knockouts. He was the first to floor Sonny Liston. He stopped Cleveland Williams. During his comeback, he KO'd iron-jawed Oscar Bonavena, something Joe Frazier's left hook was unable to do.

Even at 32, it was Ali, not Frazier, who toppled the seemingly invincible George Foreman. Where Foreman had stopped both Frazier and Ken Norton, Ali triumphed over George in Zaire. But Frazier and Norton were supposed to be "stronger" than Ali.

Ali’s knockouts of Liston, Zora Folley, Bonavena and Foreman, among others, are memorable. The blow that felled Liston was no more a phantom punch than the one that sent Folley to the canvas -- Ali's underrated chopping right.

The myth that Ali flurried, floated and frustrated all his opponents with patty cake punches is just that. He put many fighters to sleep, including some of the best, and a few no one had floored. Where do you think he earned the right to boast as Cassius Clay, "They all will fall in the round I call?"

Is that so? How many rings do Dan Marino, John Unitas, Dan Fouts and Sonny Jurgensen own between them? (Answer -- two for Unitas'). Haven't seen Peyton Manning hoisting the ol' Lombardi Trophy either.

Solid defense and an established running game are the keys to NFL success. Both strengths require superior line play. All the strong teams -- Cleveland Browns, Green Bay Packers, Oakland Raiders, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Francisco 49'ers -- had stellar interior lines.

The Packer power sweep, the Dolphins ground attack that produced two 1,000 yard rushers in the same backfield -- those teams wore you down and chewed up clock. Look at the names of their linemen: Bill Willis and Len Ford of the old Browns, Henry Davis and Willie Davis with Green Bay; Ben Davidson, and later, John Matuszak and Lyle Alzado in Oakland; stalwarts like Bob Lilly, Ed "Too Tall" Jones, Harvey Martin and Randy White in the Cowboy tradition; and Pittsburgh's "Steel Curtain."

Same along the offensive front: Gene Hickerson, John Wootten and Dick Schafrath fronting for Jimmy Brown, Jerry Kramer, Fuzzy Thurston and Forrest Gregg of the Packers; the Raiders' Jim Otto, Art Shell and Gene Upshaw, the latter trio Hall of Famers.

How important is line play?

In O.J. Simpson's first three years as a pro, he was deemed a failure. He rushed for only 697 yards (on 3.9 a carry) as a rookie, 488 and 5 TDs as a soph, and 742 his third year. Not exactly eye-popping.

Enter guards Reggie McKenzie and Joe DeLamielleure, tackles Donnie Green and Paul Seymour, and center Mike Montler -- "The Electric Company" – who helped power "The Juice" to five straight 1,000 yard campaigns, including the league's first 2,000 yard effort.

Joe Gibbs was able to guide the Washington Redskins to Super Bowl wins with three different quarterbacks because of the team's potent ground game, and The Hogs, their massive-for-that-era offensive line. In addition, the defensive front featured Dave Butz, Dexter Manley and Charles Mann.

Phil Simms labored in relative obscurity until the New York Giants shored up their defense, while John Elway finally won his Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos when Terrell Davis made his job easier.

The quarterbacks and running backs know the game is won in the trenches. So do the coaches and general managers, and they draft to build their fronts.

Signal callers such as Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana had the good fortune to be drafted by teams with line strength, or coaches who went out and got it while they were blossoming. Other talented passers could have won as much or more, had things worked out differently.

They run. They jump. They're dexterous. "Those guys are the best athletes in the world." The evidence shows otherwise.

Is Greg Ostertag a great athlete? Was Charles Oakley? Who has Toni Kukoc or Antoine Walker ever guarded? NBA players possess skills that make them outstanding at their positions, but generally don't translate well elsewhere, on the court or off.

To play in the NHL one must skate forward and backward while wearing pads heavier than those of NFL linemen, stop and start on a dime, handle the stick and puck, all while navigating considerable contact. The masked goalies stop lightning slap shots with their gloves or skates -- what reflexes and hand-eye coordination. One could make the case they are the best athletes.

Track and field requires strength, speed and stamina. These skills translate well in other sports. There is no speed like track speed, which made champion long jumper Jackie Robinson a Rose Bowl hero and a threat on the base paths, and World's Fastest Human Bob Hayes impossible to cover on a deep pass route.

Neither Cheryl Miller or Sheryl Swoopes was the athlete Jackie Joyner-Kersee was -- a world class 110 meter hurdler, an Olympic long jump champion and the queen of the heptathlon for the better part of a decade. Michael Jordan could not run or jump with Carl Lewis, a sprint king in the 100 and brutal 200 meters, an ace relay anchor and the greatest long jumper who ever lived.

The decathlon is the best measure of athletic versatility. Bob Mathias was a star running back, Milt Campbell a great hurdler and a Browns' draftee as a back, and Rafer Johnson a basketball and football starter at UCLA. Basketball's best all-around players, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan, were not fast or strong enough to have been decathlon candidates.

Most NBA players have skills that serve them well at their positions, which is why some cannot handle the basketball, others do not jump well and many are poor passers. The majority can only defend one position.

Julius Erving and Grant Hill enjoyed successful careers without being dependable outside shooters. Reggie Miller, a lock for the Hall of Fame, seldom drove to the basket. And although it is the aerial aspect of the game often argued makes hoopsters the most athletic, neither Bird nor "Magic" Johnson was much of a jumper. What other sport would either have excelled at?

Dave DeBuscherre, a mediocre relief pitcher on some bad White Sox teams, was a Hall of Fame forward who made a nice final piece to the Knicks' championship puzzle. Danny Ainge, an important cog with the champion Celtics, batted .188 with the woeful Toronto Blue Jays.

In the NFL, middle guards Curley Culp and Michael Carter were NCAA wrestling and shot put champs respectively. Bo Jackson was an all-star outfielder, and Deion Sanders batted over .400 in a World Series with the Braves. Jim Brown was one of the best lacrosse players ever. O.J. Simpson ran on a (still) world record 440 relay team at USC. Jordan's late forays into baseball and golf demonstrated talent, but not of that sort.

Basketball is graceful (though less so in this era of the sub-100 point game and excess dribbling), but its combatants are not the world's greatest athletes.

Do Alex Rodriguez and Albert Pujols know about this? It's easy to get caught up in the hype.

A couple years ago, few wanted to really pitch to Barry Bonds, and ESPN cut to his every at bat as if the fate of the world rested on it. But baseball is the sport most concerned with numbers, and numbers don't lie. For the first 10 seasons of his career, Bonds never hit 50 homers, as A-Rod and Ken Griffey, Jr. did.

In 1997, Bonds batted .291 with 40 homers and 101 RBI. Griffey hit .304 with 56 homers and 147 RBI.

In '98, Bonds posted a .303 average with 37 homers and 122 RBI, while Sammy Sosa hit .308 with 66 homers and 158 RBI, while in 1999- Bonds .262, 34 hrs., 83 RBI (his teammate Jeff Kent had better numbers). Sosa: .288, 63 homers, 141 RBI.

Sosa had broken Roger Maris' old home run record two years running. Why wasn't he being compared to Ted Williams? Home runs onto Chicago streets and rooftops must not be as dramatic and those fished out of San Francisco waters.

Fans and analysts have mentioned Bonds in the same breath as Babe Ruth, although Ruth was out-homering entire teams. When the Babe retired with 714 home runs, the next closest player had less than 500.

In the year 2000, Sammy had 50 homers to Bonds' 49, a .320 average compared to Bonds' .306. Sosa also drove in 138 runs, while Bonds only plated 106. The object of baseball is to score the most runs. How is Bonds a new Williams.

For those that fawn over Bonds' statistics because he draws a lot of walks, Ruth didn't become a household name and fill ballparks all over American because of bases on balls. Bonds walks mean fewer at bats, so his averages should therefore be higher than Sosa's, Pujols', or Manny Ramirez's.

When Barry broke the home run mark with 73 in 2001, he won the National League's MVP award. Sosa was jobbed, he had hit 64 homers, batted an identical .328 to Bonds, and won the RBI duel 160 to 137. Sosa had been driving in a run a game for three years.

Going back to 1999, American Leaguer Manny Ramirez knocked in 165 runs in only 147 games. Maybe ESPN should have had permanent cameras in Fenway Park.

Pujols, other than Sosa, is the worst victim of the hype of McCovey's Cove. Like Griffey and A-Rod, he posted astronomical stats at a younger age than did Bonds. Head-to-head, he's held his own.

In 2003, Barry batted .341, with 45 homers and 90 RBI, while Pujols batted .359 with 43 homers and 34 more RBI than Bonds. In '04, it was .362, 45 and 101 for Bonds, and .331, 46 and 123 for Pujols.

Why does Bonds draw more attention for having one season over 60 homers than Sosa for having done it three times in four years? Why not credit A-Rod and Griffey for amassing their offensive stats while playing shortstop and centerfield respectively -- positions far more demanding on the legs and joints than Bonds' leisurely post in left field? Barry plays Ramirez's position, and we know about Manny's glove.

Most dangerous hitter since The Babe? Because teams won't pitch to him? Is it Pujols' fault that the Cards have other hitters who can hurt you? Some say "Sosa had more runners to drive in." Okay, name me all the sluggers on those Cubs teams of Sosa.

Bonds' postseason numbers include averages of .167, .148, .176, and .222, he'll never be mistaken for Mickey Mantle or Reggie Jackson there. His lifetime "big game" stats are a .245 average with 9 homers in 151 at bats. That projects to 27 homers in a regular season.

Good thing he never signed with the Yankees. All The Boss needs is another big contract and a new "Mr. May."